I think the Panther platform is highly overrated

"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa) 01/13/2015 at 14:48 • Filed to: buicklopnik, fordlopnik, rants

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*dons flamesuit* literally the only advantages of a Panther over contemporaries are the body-on-frame wankfest and the fact you can do RWD donuts in it. Oh goody. This rant brought to you by the number of people who think I should buy a Panther whatever and get rid of my LeSabre, a superior car in pretty much every way. Here is a completely biased comparison to shut you twats up and rustle some jimmies.

Performance

The panther platform has a Ford Modular 4.6l SOHC V8. The Buick LeSabre has a Buick L36 3800 Series II 3.8l with pushrods. I'm going to cheat slightly and compare the Buick Park Avenue Ultra since those are a more direct competitor to the Grand Marquis, whereas the LeSabre has no direct competitor from Ford.

4.6l and a much more modern architecture will net you 235hp/275ftlb

3.8 and a supercharger will net you 240hp/280ftlb

The 3.8 requires premium fuel, but will get similar fuel economy to the V8.

As far as the noise they make, you can have a V8 rumble or insane supercharger whine

As far as tunability, both can very easily and cheaply make ridiculous amounts of power. I'm not sure about the panther, but an intake, exhaust, and small pulley will have the Park Avenue making an easy 300hp for pennies. I assume the Modular V8 is prone to similar cheap enhancements.

So the engines are pretty equivalent, the difference being the Grand Marquis 3,971lb dry curb weight vs the 3,884lb dry curb weight. In stock form, the extra power, torque, lighter weight, and more traction on the drive wheels results in the Buick winning every time in a straight line (stock) while being as easy or easier than the Modular V8 to add power to due to both companies prostituting around their engine (The 3.8 found itself in the Camaro, Firebird, Bonneville, GXP, LeSabre, PAU, Riviera, and several others).

Handling

I drove a 2002 Grand Marquis, and I've driven a 1998 Park Avenue base model (ie no sport suspension) and I can say anyone who thinks a stock Panther can handle is bullshitting themselves. Similarly, anyone who thinks a base PA can handle is bullshitting themselves. However, go up to the Park Avenue Ultra that I compared to the Panther above... no contest. The thick front and rear sway bars keep the wallowing and body roll to a minimum, though quick direction changes will result in a large amount of nautical analogies.

The Mercury I drove... oh dear god. The steering wheel felt like it only suggested a direction to the front wheels, and there was a delay between steering input, the wheels turning, and finally the body following everything else. You didn't feel bumps, which was nice. It was smooth as hell, but doing anything other than cruising almost made me physically sick.

Yes, they're both boats, but the Park Avenue Ultra felt composed and at least somewhat sure of itself. The Grand Marquis LS felt like an absolute mess.

Interior

This is kind of sad to me. The Grand Marquis is enormous. It's monolithic. It's a big-ass body-on-frame fuck-you to compact cars.

But the interior is smaller.

Yes, the interior of the Grand Marquis LS is 541 cubic feet, and the Park Avenue Ultra is 583.

Despite being 5 inches longer, 4 inches wider, and 1 inch taller...

It has less usable interior space.

The interior seemed much less luxurious on the Grand Marquis. Everything squeaked and rattled a bit more (though both cars had their fair share) and features like a heads-up display and heated seats were mysteriously absent. The Buick also features a 6-speaker sound system to the Mercury's 4-speaker system, though I didn't sample the Mercury to see if it was any good, I don't see how it could be. Honestly, the Buick is kind of a fluke. I've been in many modern cars that lack a system that good, and it pisses me off because I just bought an expensive-ass subwoofer and it failed to outperform the stock speakers. That's a rant for another time though.

Reliability

Both cars are known for outstanding reliability and very few known problems exist. Other than a scheduled head gasket replacement on the Buick (and on some models the trans seal) there isn't really much to worry about for powertrain maintenence.

Donuts

The Mercury can do them. The Buick can't. Then again, there is the possibility of reverse donuts, but I've never tried that before.

Conclusion

Please stop telling me to get a goddamn fucking Panther platform.

But you look like a cop

I really couldn't give less fucks.

^no

^yes

505Turbeaux > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 14:51

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but you can't do this with that wimpy Buick "chassis"

/I win

one more for the people

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > 505Turbeaux 01/13/2015 at 14:52

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Is that a body swapped Panther platform?

Coty > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 14:52

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I almost made it through the first paragraph without thinking you were on fucking meth.

505Turbeaux > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 14:53

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why would it have to be? Panther has been around since the late 70's. Pure Panther baby

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 14:53

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Lol

-

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 14:54

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Wait, don't you want people to slow down to below the speed limit when you come up behind them?

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 14:55

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I've looked at old Police Interceptors and then thought to myself "Wait, I can get a Bonneville SSEI or Grand Prix GXP and have way more fun than driving this old abused boat." I really don't see the panther's appeal, except for the Marauder. RWD sure, but when you handle like a boat and have less power than the FWD car, is it really worth the occasional burnout? Which I can do if I just put my foot down in most, if not all, FWD cars.

ly2v8-Brian > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 14:56

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Prepare to fanboyed into oblivion.

Sweet Trav > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 14:57

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I have seen 03 cobra motors swapped into crown vics. The 3.8 is a good work horse, but when it comes to performance, the longitudinal V8 is better. And this is coming from someone who loathes the mod motor.

I dont even think that the Panther platform is that good, it is however leaps bounds and a whole heapin helpin sportier than the utter wretched useless filth that is the GM W body. Remember every time you drive a W body you support what Roger Smith did to GM.

The man in the iron mask > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 14:57

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easy cowboy. If you like you car better thats fine by me, but you cant start inventing false things against the panther. Panther is superior. Period.

AM3R shamefully returns > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 14:57

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/unpopularopinion

Or get something actually fun to drive...

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > ly2v8-Brian 01/13/2015 at 14:58

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I have popcorn. It's gonna be great. I can't wait for the baseless counter-arguments with no statistics.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 01/13/2015 at 14:58

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I wish I could do burnouts in my car... 230ft lbs of torque + sticky-ass tires does not smoke make :(

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 01/13/2015 at 14:59

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Not worth the compromise. I'd rather put my foot down and unleash the supercharger whine.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > AM3R shamefully returns 01/13/2015 at 14:59

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Panthers are a different type of fun to drive.

Bandit > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 14:59

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And both are rather ugly... sorry.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 01/13/2015 at 14:59

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Yes, burnouts are a completely objective measure of a car's superiority. I must bow to your obviously inarguable counterpoint.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Coty 01/13/2015 at 14:59

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Cool story bro ^_^

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:00

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Uphill. That's all you need. I got my girlfriend's 200ft-lbs of torque Vulcan to light the tires up on a hill.

Textured Soy Protein > 505Turbeaux 01/13/2015 at 15:00

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You can...park in a snowy driveway next to a boat?

RallyWrench > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:00

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;)

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > 505Turbeaux 01/13/2015 at 15:01

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Fair enough, but platform prostitution doesn't make a 2000 mercury better than a 2000 buick, which is the point I was arguing.

ly2v8-Brian > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:01

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ly2v8-Brian > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 01/13/2015 at 15:02

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FWD burnouts are possible.

505Turbeaux > Textured Soy Protein 01/13/2015 at 15:03

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ha that was a few years back...and next to the scout diesel, the e34 wagon, the 850 Platinum wagon, and a VW Dasher diesel (under the cover)

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > ly2v8-Brian 01/13/2015 at 15:04

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I've never seen that gif before but that is amazing.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > ly2v8-Brian 01/13/2015 at 15:04

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I know, I'm probably the reason the Vue needed new tires so quickly.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > RallyWrench 01/13/2015 at 15:04

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OBVIOUSLY I NEED TO TAKE OFF ONE OF MY WHEELS.

IT'S GENIUS.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Bandit 01/13/2015 at 15:04

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This is a fair point. I am not a fan of the looks of either.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > AM3R shamefully returns 01/13/2015 at 15:05

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Completely different type of car, but objectively a better performer, though not as good at luxury or ride quality. I rode in a 2000-ish (maybe 97) BMW and was stunned by how cheap it looked and felt :/

ly2v8-Brian > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 01/13/2015 at 15:06

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My grandpa did that with his Terazza once, many laughs were had.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > The man in the iron mask 01/13/2015 at 15:06

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Good argument. "It's better."

I sure can't come up with statistics that say the exact opposite.

Wait. I did. Scroll up.

Milky > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:07

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BOTH are the wrong cheap grandpa mobile.

Come at me bro.

Your boy, BJR > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:08

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I'm gonna ignore the comparison part and just say THANK FUCKING CHRIST someone else here agrees that panthers are overrated.

B-BODY MASTER RACE FOR LIFE

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:08

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E36s are ridiculously cheap feeling inside. Like how BMW got away with selling that interior at the price they did is a mystery.

RazoE > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:08

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But they both suck..=/

Bandit > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:09

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Except the Murdersofa because it is a giant middle finger to conventionalism which is something that I always love.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Sweet Trav 01/13/2015 at 15:09

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The 03 cobra motor is a modular V8 as well, right? I'm not terribly well versed at Ford stuff.

I dunno. The W-body is an insanely strong frame, and the independent suspension (4-wheel macpherson struts) can be modified to give a pretty damn good semblance of handling prowess.

505Turbeaux > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:09

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I don't know (and you know I respect the hell out of you for the murdersofa), there was an awful lot of platform prostitution going on all over the place. The chassis dynamics just suck donkey balls. By the 2000 model year they were both tired. The Colony Park was gutless sure with the 5.0l through an AOD, but it does have a hell of a bit of interior room, seating and belts for 8, WOOD PANELING and hauled the freight. Also would swallow 6 sheets of plywood with the tailgate shut.

BrtStlnd > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:10

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I agree completely with your assessment. The Panther is incredibly romanticized and overrated by many on Jalopnik, only because it's RWD.

Kate's Dirty Sister > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 01/13/2015 at 15:10

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It's like golden showers, a type of fun I will never understand

cletus44 aka Clayton Seams > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:11

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Arguing whether a Crown Vic is more fun to drive than a LeSabre is like arguing whether Justin Bieber makes better music than Nickelback.

Jonathan Harper > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:11

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I'm going to cheat slightly and compare the Buick Park Avenue Ultra

Well then. Comparison null.

Kate's Dirty Sister > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:11

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Bravo!

I agree with everything

This should be front-paged

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > 505Turbeaux 01/13/2015 at 15:12

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GMs chassis naming scheme was a clusterfuck in the early 2000s. The SeVille, DeVille, LeSabre, Park Avenue, and Bonneville were all the same platform, but I believe they were the only cars that were *that* platform, which was revised and refreshed in 1997 with the new generation of the SeVille being the first to take advantage of it (if I remember right).

Honestly not sure about chassis dynamics, but I remember it scored incredibly well in crush tests. Not that that says much.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Bandit 01/13/2015 at 15:13

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The LeSabre styling honestly is better than the PAU, probably because they styled it slightly after the outgoing Riviera.

R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams 01/13/2015 at 15:13

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#COTD

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > BrtStlnd 01/13/2015 at 15:13

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You are the chosen one.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > RazoE 01/13/2015 at 15:14

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Yes, except people constantly shit on one (mine) while putting the other (the Ford) on a pedestal.

Your boy, BJR > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams 01/13/2015 at 15:14

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Moral of the story: Canada cannot into music

I'm gonna give Bieber the win though, only because he was able to get luda into the studio with him, and luda is the man.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:14

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1995-1998 Riviera > Panther. All day, everyday.

PAUs are awesome too. I want one with those new chunky regal 7-spokes and a 2" drop. Actually......I would totally airbag a PAU from 2000+ and scrape everywhere. Or just do one up like the "VIP" concept at SEMA and yes, there was a PAU at SEMA

505Turbeaux > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:14

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it is like comparing rotten eggs, and rotten fish comparing the handling of those 2 cars.

Thunderface > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:15

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Lol Panther FTW or GTFO

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Milky 01/13/2015 at 15:15

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Is the SC300 a grandpa mobile? It's soft-cushy-enormous-4-door-boat enough for that D:

Also I really really want a manual SC300 but they're friggin' IMPOSSIBLE to find because everyone buys them and engine swaps and mods them to hell and back, so all you can find are ones that are stupid expensive because of mods, or stupid expensive because they're stock and have "potential"

RazoE > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:16

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I'd personally take a 96 Impala SS and live like a king. #ForgetTheRest #UneccessaryHashtag

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Thunderface 01/13/2015 at 15:16

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LOL U WOT M8 ILL SMAK YE

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > 505Turbeaux 01/13/2015 at 15:17

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You'd be surprised what my LeSabre can do with upgraded sway bars and tires. It's actually pretty impressive.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 01/13/2015 at 15:17

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Sweet frosty moses those wheels are nice.

And yes, 8th-gen Riviera 4 lyfe.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Jonathan Harper 01/13/2015 at 15:19

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The "cheating" wasn't the fact that the cars aren't equivalent. If you'd bothered to read then you'd see that "since those are a more direct competitor to the Grand Marquis, whereas the LeSabre has no direct competitor from Ford."

So the comparison is perfectly valid between those two cars. The Murdersofa doesn't count because it's obviously better than either. It is no longer a LeSabre; it is a class of its own.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:20

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Plus some of them get drifted into curbs in the slums of Detroit

*shots fired.....again......like usual......<3 you Milky*

BrtStlnd > Your boy, BJR 01/13/2015 at 15:20

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There are more of us than you'd think...

Aaron M - MasoFiST > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:20

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If you're going to compare these cars on their merits, the correct conclusion is pretty much always "oh bloody hell, I'm buying a Toyota". The GS300, LS400 and Avalon from the same time period are all vastly superior cars. This is like arguing about North Korea and Somalia in the UN Human Rights Index.

The 3800 cars have Dexcool, LIM issues, and ancillary parts that fail way more frequently than they should. I owned a Bonneville SSEi for a year and had to replace the EGR valve and MAF sensor. The blower motor and starter both started to go but I limped it into the Subaru dealership without replacing. I put the body issues aside, but it was the worst built car I've ever ridden in...my friend's Geo Metro had fewer rattles (though the appalling wind noise may have shielded them).

My two Panther experiences were in a Town Car that set itself on fire, and a Mark VIII that the most broken transmission of any car I've ever ridden in. I'd say they seemed better built, but that really does seem to be missing the point compared to self-immolation and a 3 second delay to finding first gear.

These are "run what you brung" cars. They're both cheap, and they both signal that the 2000 Accord you probably should have bought just wasn't couch-like enough for you.

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:22

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You really do like your rolling sofas, I'll give you that. My dad was a Buick man, so I get that too. '65 Electra 225 for life!
I've never ridden in a Rolls, but it is hard to imagine a car having a smoother ride that that one had. It was like riding on a cloud..... you didn't drive that car though, you navigated it.

505Turbeaux > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:22

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Now this is different territory, with the same upgrades I bet you get the same claim on the Ford chassis. Mods be mods. Also just for fun.

regardless, my B body Roadmaster estate was a far superior car to the Panther

Kate's Dirty Sister > Coty 01/13/2015 at 15:22

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Fun fact : Crown vics are noted meth mobiles

BrtStlnd > Coty 01/13/2015 at 15:22

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This is a typical Pro-Panther response. Non-specific allusion to the awesomeness of the platform.

Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams 01/13/2015 at 15:22

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Such a perfect example, this right here.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Aaron M - MasoFiST 01/13/2015 at 15:22

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You had a 2000s Pontiac?

I am so sorry for you.

I truly am.

Kate's Dirty Sister > Your boy, BJR 01/13/2015 at 15:23

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A lot more

MultiplaOrgasms > Kate's Dirty Sister 01/13/2015 at 15:23

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Or brown rain...

Milky > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:24

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I didn't give into the "2jz no shit" bait, and just got a cheap as shit 400.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > 505Turbeaux 01/13/2015 at 15:24

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If both those cars in the video are unmodified, I'm honestly surprised the Ford didn't win by more.

Also yes, Roadmaster wagons make my penis the big penis.

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > Milky 01/13/2015 at 15:24

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Hard to find an unmolested SC for cheap, brah....

Kate's Dirty Sister > BrtStlnd 01/13/2015 at 15:24

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Let's not forget the 40 MPG on cop fuel

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Milky 01/13/2015 at 15:25

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They are damn attractive cars.

Aaron M - MasoFiST > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:25

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1997. But it was reassembled in the backyard of a Western Pennsylvania redneck to bring it up to 2002 standards.

Kate's Dirty Sister > MultiplaOrgasms 01/13/2015 at 15:25

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Not sure what it is but I'm not going to Google it.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:26

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*shouts from the other side of the bingo hall* Get a Lexus!

Milky > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 01/13/2015 at 15:26

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My car was already "totaled" years before I got it and it had 189k miles on it. No harm done imo.

Also lol @ "slums".

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:27

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Woah, an independent suspension! In the 90s? How did they manage that? Ford only figured that shit out for the Mustang this year!

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > BrtStlnd 01/13/2015 at 15:28

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And body on frame.

Milky > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. 01/13/2015 at 15:28

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Wasn't for me. Salvage title, terrible interior, 189k miles but in good shape drivetrain for $1500.

10/10 would buy again.

Weather and Darkness > Your boy, BJR 01/13/2015 at 15:29

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You take that back!
Just because the people the star machine has seen fit to adopt are so shit, is no reason to suggest that they are in any way representative. /deadhorse

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Milky 01/13/2015 at 15:29

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Yep, this. I remember someone getting a broken 400 on grassroots motorsports a couple of years ago for practically nothing with a manual. They exist,

Justin Hughes > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:30

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Just a couple of data points.

Panther power increased to 250 in 2004 - at least in the P71, probably across the board. So that beats the Buick just a little.

The Panther got rack and pinion steering in 2003. We're not talking telepathic steering or anything, but it's a HUGE improvement over the non-existent feel of the 2002 and earlier. And the P71 suspension doesn't wallow as much as the standard versions. It's firm enough to handle decently for such a huge car, but still soft enough to not feel beat up after a full day in the driver's seat.

Of course, if you go for a P71, you get a seriously spartan interior, rubber floor, and slabs of bucket seats. But hey, at least the seatbacks are armor plated to keep back seat passengers from stabbing you. Seriously. The cushy bits from more upscale cars swap right in, but that's work.

I doubt these data points will change your mind. I'm not really trying to.

JohnTaurus-3L-AX4N > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:31

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Im a die-hard Ford guy, but I wouldnt buy a Panther as a d/d unless there were no other option. And Id dump it and take another option as soon as it came around.

My parents bought a 2008 Grand Marquis LS (fleet), former rental against my advice. It wasnt long before I convinced them to let me sell it, and as soon as I did, they bought a 2012 Taurus, and couldnt be happier.

I love hearing people on the internet who have probably never driven, much less owned a Panther talk about it as though it was the last Ford product worth buying. They claim its roomy (it certainly is not), fast (nope), its comfortable (wrong again, it KILLED my back to drive theirs, the Taurus on the other hand is very supportive and caused me no pain when I drove it all day), and that it handles well because RWD (lol, sure it does, compared to an ocean liner maybe).

I fully understand why Ford kept them around so long, but I would rather drive my 95 Taurus than to have a late-model Panther.

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > Milky 01/13/2015 at 15:31

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Can't really argue with that. As long as the engine is in order, it's not really much of an issue at that price.

MultiplaOrgasms > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:31

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MN12 Cougar all the way.

Milky > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:33

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I see this around occasionally, still get jealous of it.

Dat GTE swap. Also wanted like $9k for it, so I know what you mean.

Weather and Darkness > RazoE 01/13/2015 at 15:34

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much better looking too!

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 01/13/2015 at 15:34

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The appeal to the Panther: Government auctions.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:34

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You miss the ONE reason to go with the Panther over the G-Body.

Ability to install the 6.8L Triton V10 in the engine bay.

ly2v8-Brian > Your boy, BJR 01/13/2015 at 15:36

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B body, Bigger and Better

Thunderface > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:37

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FITE ME BRUH

44444444444 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/13/2015 at 15:37

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Screw both of those cars. 250hp from a 4.6l V8? Wow, that's bad. 90s American sedans are truly awful (and amazing the same time).

Buy a Volvo S70 or S60 and get decent handling, decent horsepower, and a modern engine.

The California Highway Patrol was going to switch to them (and they should have)

Or, because this is Jalopnik buy a V70 wagon and you can win against a Panther or Buick in any race, Home Depot run, or coolness contest. Also, the 5T sounds so much better than any of these land barges.

This is a late 90s Volvo. It has so much more. A manual can be had (gotta do a swap if in 'Merica) and it'll drive all 4 wheels.

This is its successor it's even better! It has a manual standard and amazeballs seats and AWD.

Finally, a decent AWD V70 costs less than an ex cop Panther that's been run to hell and back.

44444444444 > 505Turbeaux 01/13/2015 at 15:37

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I spy a Volvo wagon. Get that instead.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 01/13/2015 at 15:38

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Dat sound.

ly2v8-Brian > Kate's Dirty Sister 01/13/2015 at 15:39

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The comments that would roll in would be price less.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 01/13/2015 at 15:39

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LS400 is the answer. More reliable, more luxurious, more power, also rwd, better sound, better handling, and same price.

ly2v8-Brian > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 01/13/2015 at 15:39

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alright time for your medication.